Sunday, May 3, 2009

Third Parties - Why GOOOH is Different

Have you ever considered why so many intelligent people fail to consider new ideas, or worse, flippantly dismiss them? It’s not that the possibilities are always obvious, but you would think smart people would have learned not be so dismissive. Yet it happens time and time again. If you don’t do it their way, the established way, you can't possibly succeed. They are so wrong.

Think of IBM and their decision to let Bill Gates take over the “niche” Operating System business. Michael Dell and the direct model comes to mind; Compaq, Tandy, IBM, and more than 20 other companies are now completely out of the PC Business while Dell has amassed over a trillion dollars in revenue. Ray Kroc created a unique approach for selling hamburgers, fries, and milkshakes; Burger King, Dairy Queen, and others all had a head start, but look at McDonald’s. Consider Google or Amazon. New ideas can change the landscape oh so quickly.

There is always a new way, a better way, but those “in the know” all too often refuse to see the opportunity. Can you imagine what those who made ships that sail thought the first time someone proposed starting a fire under the hull to propel a wooden ship into the wind? You can bet they found a way to say what a terrible idea it was.

That leads me to the most recent missile fired by Rush Limbaugh, but also supported by Mark Levin, several “ranking” Republican Party members in Florida and Texas who I have recently communicated with, and those who doubt GOOOH can succeed. They are concerned that a movement like GOOOH, or any third party, cannot win. Worse, they say it would be bad for “their” party, that it will siphon votes from them. They are so focused on their way of doing things that they all too often fail to consider anything new. Like so many others, they completely miss, diss, or arrogantly dismiss anything different than what they know. In their mind, paradigms never shift. Don’t be surprised, it happens all the time. But don’t despair either. The people always determine what succeeds and what fails. The elite are proven wrong time after time.

The reason GOOOH will succeed is that it is a third party unlike any other. It is a non-partisan party leveraging an unbiased process, something we’ve never had before. It does not target the votes of one group, it seeks votes from all. It aims to fire politicians. Not Republicans and not Democrats, but politicians—all of them. It will remove the men and women who accept millions of dollars from special interest groups, who vote exactly how their party tells them they must, and who are so worried about their own political career that they forget they serve the people, at least until election time rolls around.

GOOOH is an entirely new method for selecting representatives. Just as McDonald’s marketed hamburgers in an innovative way, and Dell sold computers directly to the user, GOOOH will bypass the political parties and reject special interest money. GOOOH will use the power of the Internet and allow everyday Americans to participate. GOOOH will eliminate today’s politicians, the ones destroying our nation. GOOOH will revolutionize the way our country is managed.

The only thing that can prevent GOOOH from succeeding is if we cannot get the word to enough Americans to know there is now an option. I hope you will do everything you can to notify everyone you know. Get them to visit GOOOH.com. Our success depends on you.

Sunday, April 5, 2009

Rattlesnakes and GOOOH

The following is an excerpt from the book Get Out Of Our House: Revolution!

At the age of 23 and barely a year out of college, I had an encounter I can recall as vividly as if it happened yesterday. It was a beautiful fall morning in Texas, 40-something degrees on its way to 70 with only a hint of the morning dew left to drip from the season’s last blazing red and shimmering yellow leaves, each hopelessly clinging to the oaks scattered across the hillside for a few final days. The fresh smell of cedar filled the air and the clouds had left the eternal blue sky to itself for the day.

I slid down from the tree I’d hunted from that morning and silently crept along the top of a Texas mesa, 100 feet higher than the bottom below, working my way through the evergreen shrubs, and around scattered, flat stones where a single misstep would break the silence and end the hunt. I had worked my way around a particularly thick cedar, moving slightly to my left and angling downhill. My left foot lifted twelve inches above the ground and advanced forward across a large, holey rock covered with a small cedar log when I spotted trouble.

Three feet in front of my left big toe and just eighteen inches from its landing spot downhill coiled the largest snake I had ever seen in my life. For the next two hundredths or two hundred seconds, my life advanced like a slow-motion replay still recorded on my internal Tivo.

I saw an enormous wad of coiled snake with not one but two heads about two inches apart, raised, and pulling back into a well defined and unmistakable strike position. A rattling noise increased in intensity by the millisecond and a shaking tail rose above the coil several inches behind the two heads. In my mind’s replay, I don’t see a second rattle, though I suspect it simply blended into the wad or shook so close to the other that they combined to appear as one. I remember my mind screaming DANGER! and being able to slow but not stop my momentum as gravity pulled me down the hill and forward. My unavoidable next step had a known, but not so happy ending.

I held the stock of the rifle in my right hand near the trigger housing and the barrel in my left, angling from my right hip to about a foot in front of my left knee. The barrel pointed slightly to the left of the wad of snake at an angle most fortunate for me. I instinctively swung it to the right, probably quicker than nature would suggest I should have, but time to quibble did not exist. The two heads pulled back further and the noise of the rattle amplified as inches closed between my foot and the pile of snake. My finger raced to the trigger. It’s odd that I don’t recall clicking from safety to fire with my thumb, but I also don’t remember taking a breath, feeling my heart beat, or suppressing a scream that would have made any five-year-old proud.

I certainly did not think about it at that moment, and to this day still wonder if I recognized the wad as two snakes mating and expected to kill them both with one shot, or simply thought I had stumbled across one jumbo mutant snake with two heads. I honestly do not know. Nor do I know if I expected to kill it or them or just hoped I would do as much damage to them as they were about to do to me. My best guess is that I knew trouble waited to greet my next step, and the innate, logical, and only thing I had to do was strike first and hope for the best. I knew that I could not stop my momentum and avoid that next step, and there was no question that before the next tick of the clock I would violate the privacy that this beast demanded. I don’t recall for certain, but I think my heart skipped three beats. I fired before I could be scared to death.

I did not hear the sound of the rifle as the bullet attacked the snake and reset the situation. My mental video goes to fast-forward from that point on, and I only remember flying uphill and backwards, landing at least five feet from a slowly slithering hunk of flesh on the brown and bloody ground. I recall seeing a large broken snake, with one head weakly raised and a rattle still barely shaking under the cedar.

Under any other circumstance, I have no doubt that I would have unloaded every bullet I had until any sign of movement abated and the slithering devil rested as peacefully dead as the dirt itself, but my memory only has me walking as fast as I could, almost running at times, across the mile of grassy fields and dirt roads back to camp. A little later, my cousin, uncle, a couple of friends and I went back and found not one two-headed snake but two one-headed monsters. They measured 5’6” and 5’9,” and each had a dozen or so buttons on its tail.

Looking back, the rattlesnakes were an important trigger in the creation of GOOOH. I have lived in Texas my entire life, but have only had two face-to-face encounters with rattlesnakes. The second encounter happened just a few years ago.

While telling the story of the second encounter I made the comparison between snakes and politicians. The snake in the second story led me to tell the mating snake story, and the thought that Democrats and Republicans are nothing more than the male and female gender of the political species (you can decide which is which).

When I thought about how I had put an end to the mating snakes with one shot, and commented that I wished we could get rid of every poisonous snake in America, I was on the trail that led to the creation of GOOOH, the plan that will allow us to get rid of the politicians (not shoot them, but remove them); the plan to replace them with true representatives of the people, just as our founders intended. All of them. At the same time. The idea continued to evolve and eventually became the GOOOH system.

Tuesday, March 24, 2009

Tricked Again (TC)

We’ve been tricked, again, and yes, it absolutely does matter. We are fools if we believe otherwise. The problem is not that Obama broke his earmark promise; it is that the politicians who benefit from them are rubbing his nose as well as every one of ours in “it.” The stench is awful!

What’s the big deal, some ask? Earmarks are but a small fraction of the total budget. In today’s trillion dollar deficit environment, why should we care about a measly 10 or 20 billion dollars? Surely, there are bigger things to worry about. At risk of digressing, click here if you want so see a graphic explaining why $1,000,000,000,000 should scare the bejesus out of you. But let me get back on track.

The problem with earmarks is that they ensure 95% of incumbents get re-elected. Earmarks are used to pay back those who sponsor the re-election bids of our non-representative representatives. If you really want to understand how this works, take a few minutes and watch this superb video put together by the Independence Caucus. They demonstrate how two Utah Congressman, one Republican and one Democrat, use earmarks to repay the companies who fund their campaigns. Perhaps the most criminal part of all is how the companies who benefit from earmarks pay congressmen of BOTH parties to pass them. They don’t care about party affiliation, only that the person in power brings business their way. Watch this video!

Our most recent blog is an excerpt from Al Depman’s “Breaking Patterns.” As you consider the current situation in the U.S., recognize we are not the first country to be in this predicament. Will we, like all those who have come before us, fail to learn from history? As George Santayana argued, are we doomed to repeat it?

Finally, a GOOOH member recently called us out for linking to CREW’s list of the most corrupt politicians. He was angry, you see, because CREW is recognized by just about everyone as leaning as far to the left as Ann Coulter leans to the right. If you look at CREW’s list, you’ll notice that three-fourths of their most corrupt politicians are Republicans. While we acknowledge the list is biased, and they clearly could have included more Democrats, it’s hard to argue that those on the list don’t belong. The point here is not whether or not their list is biased; it is that we have so many corrupt politicians.

My fellow patriots, the solution is to quit electing career politicians who cater to the special interests that fund them, the political party that sponsors them, and their own political career. Politicians have forgotten they were elected to represent the people.

GOOOH offers a solution. We hope you will tell everyone you can to evaluate the merits of our system. Together, we will retake our government and get our nation back on track.


Join the Revolution!

Sunday, March 15, 2009

The Lessons of History - Breaking Patterns

I was recently forwarded an article written by Al Depman titled "Breaking Patterns." I have included an excerpt here. Is America intelligent enough to learn from history, or will we too be unable to change what we know must be changed?


The events of the past few months have been unsettling, to say the least. The credit crisis, portfolio declines across the board, job losses, high profile Ponzi schemes, and big government mixing it up with ostensibly free enterprise have me believing that America is on the cusp of a transition.

The transition may be to a second-rate world power or to the dawning of a new age of greatness. It's our choice. I'm reminded of a quote from C. P.Snow's The Two Cultures and the Scientific Revolution (1959):

"More often than I like, I am saddened by a historical myth. I can't help thinking of the Venetian Republic in their last half-century. Like us, they had become fabulously rich as we did... They knew, just as clearly as we know, that the current of history had begun to flow against them. Many of them gave their minds to working out ways to keep going. It would have meant breaking the pattern into which they had crystallized. They were fond of the pattern, just as we are fond of ours. They never found the will to break it."

The Venetian Republic was established in about 800 AD and reached its primacy from 1100-1650. Once the major trade routes began to flow away from the Mediterranean and into the Atlantic to the new world, Venice had the choice to adapt to this global reality or stick with what they did best: feud with the Ottoman Empire and the Turks in local territorial battles. By the 1700's, the period referred to by Snow in the quote, their influence and power had essentially evaporated in the wake of this early "globalization."

Snow's piece refers to the two cultures of science and the humanities and, allegorically, a warning to Britain. At the time, their post-WWII international significance had been diminishing as the United States' was rising. The British inability to recapture their greatness is summed up in the last two sentences. Snow writes: "They were fond of the pattern, just as we are fond of ours. They never found the will to break it."

So we're facing the latest "current of history"--arguably as significant as the Great Depression. Let's hope we can escape this one without a World War of either the weapons-of-mass-destruction or economic kind. Will our leadership rise to the occasion or sink into partisan bickering? Are we Americans too "fond of our pattern" to care? If so, then we've already become a fat, dumb, and happy constituency.


I believe this came from the MitchAnthony Web site.

Monday, March 2, 2009

Keynesian vs. Austrian Economics (By EW)

When politicians talk "spending" and "bailout", they are generally parroting an economist named Keynes who advocated that the Federal Government must step in and inject cash into the financial system when an economy slows down and businesses stop borrowing money for growth's sake. The Government must do this, Keynes said, in order to stabilize failing banks, "jump start" businesses to borrow/spend again, and to create Government-financed jobs such as the “shovel-ready” infrastructure improvements we’ve been hearing about. In other words, Keynesians attempt to create a financial feeding frenzy by throwing “blood” in the water.

To finance all of this, the Government has but two legitimate options to obtain the cash, and both are bad:

1) Borrow money: The money usually comes from either a conglomeration of banks or the government of another country (lately China has been the primary lender). Government loans are just like the loans you and I take out - they incur interest (thus increasing the balance) and must eventually be repaid. Since the Government has no way to actually make money, they must eventually raise taxes to pay off the loan.

2) Print money: That's right, just print more. When the US abandoned the gold standard back in 1971, we switched to "fiat money." "Fiat" means "by decree" and implies that the printed money has value simply because people trust it has value - even though it isn't backed by anything. Some argue that there is little difference between counterfeit money and Government-printed money. The end result is that every time the Fed prints money, the overall value of all money in circulation is diluted - which will eventually lead to inflation. Considering the amount of money contained in the Bailout and Stimulus Bills, the inflation is likely to be MASSIVE. Tomorrow's dollar will not buy what today's dollar does—by a long shot. Historically, inflation takes a LONG time to return to equilibrium through - guess what - even more taxation.

At its core, Keynesian Economics is a Big Brother approach to our country's financial system, driven by "experts" in ivory towers who attempt to run the economy via spreadsheets: centralized, heavily overseen by Government, and subject to price-fixing and spending control by a Frankenstein hybrid of government and select businesses and banks who tow the government line (1).

Keynesian economics advocates taking our economy and giving control to the Federal Government - a government that operates with all the efficiency, transparency, and competency of the Department of Motor Vehicles, the Veterans Administration, and the IRS. Are you frightened? You should be. You should be terrified.

Now consider an alternative - one focused on removing government barriers to business growth and consumer spending. This school of thought, originating in the Austrian School of Economics (2), is similar to the Chicago School of Business (3). Both advocate that the problem with government intervention during an economic downturn is that businesses and people become fearful of the unknown consequences of Federal meddling. They therefore tend to “hunker down” – not hiring, not spending, and not borrowing. They conserve cash. As things get worse, businesses are forced to lay people off and cut production. Consumers stop buying things like cars, homes, and meals in order to conserve cash and hang on until better days arrive.

The Austrian/Chicago disciples believe that Government’s main role in times like these is to quell the economic fear by "getting out of the way." Government needs to avoid scaring businesses and consumers, and instead create incentives that encourage businesses to produce, hire, buy and invest.

They suggest:
- Tax cuts for individuals
- Reduced sales taxes
- Cutting capital gains
- Tax cuts that incent businesses to hire and grow
- Removing restrictive trade agreements and eliminating tariffs to open international business opportunities
- Allowing banks autonomy to encourage startups and expansion
- Making government less prominent, allowing businesses to do what they do naturally, creating a positive-reinforcement loop of freedom and prosperity

By doing these things:
- Businesses will have new opportunities to make money
- Businesses will hire people
- New businesses will be created
- People will become prosperous, feeling secure in their jobs and with their purchasing power

Further, the Austrians say the Keynesian Model is fundamentally flawed because when the government dumps money into the system it does not quell the economic fear. As we are seeing today, it actually increases it—CEO’s from across the country are being called into Congressional hearings and given the 3rd degree. They are being told by a bunch of government bureaucrats how to run their business. The result is that companies still “hunker down” even after the “stimulus," fearful of all the regulations, unknown consequences, and random public lashings.

Citizens do the same. They don't spend because nothing seems to be changing, companies remain stagnant. The media hysteria makes it worse as pundit after pundit screams, “The sky is falling." Everyone remains scared, waiting for the storm to blow over—something that could take years.

The end result of a Keynesian Stimulus? Massive debt, massive inflation, massive taxation, and continued layoffs. There is no jump-start of the economy. It's like throwing gasoline on a fire.

What many find infuriating is that Keynesians ignore, or argue away, the 1930's (FDR's New Deal), 1970's (Carter) and 1990's (Japan) when Keynesian theories were put into practice but failed miserably. In each instance it took a decade for the economy to recover, and it didn't recover until the Keynesian approach was abandoned.

An example of the Austrian theory being implemented is Ireland in the late 1990's. Prior to 1990, Ireland was one of the poorest nations in Europe; it was massively socialistic. Huge portions of its population were on welfare and companies avoided investing in Ireland like the plague. Then Ireland decided to implement a (partial) "fair tax" system that ceased penalizing businesses with excessive regulations and high taxes. What happened? Ireland became the 2nd strongest economy in Europe nearly overnight (second only to Luxembourg). Today, the Irish have one of the highest standards of living and greatest buying power in Europe (4).

"We went on a borrowing, spending and taxing spree, and that nearly drove us under," said Irish Deputy Prime Minister Mary Harney. "It was because we nearly went under that we got (sic) the courage to change." Ireland, up until the late 1990's, was a poster-child for the Keynesian economic system our current politicians are foisting upon us. But the Irish government recognized their mistake and reversed course. In just a few years, and for the first time in history, Ireland transitioned from a Third World economy to the leading economy in Europe. Now THAT'S change I can believe in!

Now, I'm no economist, and I've probably left out a lot of important stuff, but to my knowledge these are the basic premises and facts. I highly encourage you to do some research on your own and confirm/expand on these thoughts. From my standpoint, it just comes down to a common sense approach: stop government intervention, offer irresistible incentives to businesses and consumers, and let human nature and the free market take over. Call me simplistic, but this common-sense approach to financial prosperity has worked for every private citizen’s checkbook and company ledger that I know of.

(1) See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics for more info
(2) See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_School and http://mises.org/ for more info. All see von Mises and Menger
(3) See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_school_%28economics%29 for more info. Also see Friedman and Hayek
(4) Here's some great background reading on how Ireland did it: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/29/opinion/29friedman.html?_r=1 , http://www.oecdobserver.org/news/fullstory.php/aid/164/Ireland_s_economic_boom:_the_true_causes.html , and http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/626.html.

Tuesday, January 27, 2009

Who Do We Hold Accountable?

The following article was written by K.A. Atcher, a friend of GOOOH. It is really good. GOOOH seeks to hold our elected officials accountable. Ms. Atcher goes a step further and points out not only how easy it would be for us all to hold others accountable, but that it is our duty to do so.





By K. A. Atcher (1/27/09)


Our new president has promised to change the tone of Washington, and whether you approve of each change or not, he appears to be trying to do what he said he would do – an encouraging sign. Yet, there are some troubling signals already surfacing, witness Mr. Obama’s choice for Treasury Secretary. Timothy Geithner had some unfinished business with the IRS; it seems he neglected to pay his taxes. But if you’re good at what you do, past unethical behavior apparently does not disqualify one for positions of trust. Reuters reported that Mr. Geithner was “too uniquely qualified for Congress to reject . . .” and the New York Times declared there was “no better alternative.” So he gets the job – appointed by the President of the United States and confirmed by Congress, despite an admitted disregard for the laws he will be entrusted to enforce.


And why are we surprised? We have become a nation of no accountability and no consequences. Consider the outrageous behavior of athletes who get away with drug use and assault, not to mention bad behavior on the field – if they are especially talented at moving the ball or scoring the run, their talent trumps any violation of ethics or law. And this is an area where We, the Public, could easily enforce a higher standard. Team owners and managers would quickly respond to a drop in attendance; advertisers to our use of the ‘off’ button on our TV sets.


But We, the Public, don’t do that. We may grumble when someone ‘gets away’ with something for which we are convinced we would pay heavily if caught. We think the judge, or the manager, or someone-other-than-me should do better. But we are not willing to inconvenience ourselves to enforce a standard of behavior.


We have much less influence on Wall Street, but do we really care what those CEO’s are doing – as long as our 401k or IRA keeps growing? Private behavior, in the United States, is private and rightly so. But when private behavior spills over into the public domain; when bad behavior has the potential to impact our lives; we need to do more than avert our eyes in embarrassment.


If we are truly outraged at the loss of ethical behavior in Washington, we must start the change at home with the small things that are in our control. We may not have any say in the prosecution and sentencing of Bernie Madoff, but we can hold ourselves, our children, our local school board, to a standard of performance, integrity and accountability. We can conduct our own business to those standards and support only those public figures whose behavior meets those standards.


Yes we need government officials, elected representatives and CEO’s who are honest, open and trustworthy right now – and some currently are, or try to be – but no law passed today will influence a law-breaker except to stimulate greater efforts to get around it. If we want honest government, honest business, we need to produce honest young people, with a sense of honor and duty to others and to their country.


We need teachers – in grade school and high school – who insist on appropriate behavior in the class room, backed by school boards with the courage to put student education ahead of spurious political correctness. We need coaches – high school, college and pro – who will bench their best player for misconduct even if it means losing the big game – there is no more powerful lesson than the shame of letting down your teammates. We need athletic directors who will insist their players actually get a useful education. And, perhaps most critically, we need parents and community members who will support these actions by actively supporting the schools where they do well and boycotting activities that work against the goal of producing good citizens.
It may sound simplistic to suggest we not pay to see movies with themes or actors who do not represent our ideals, or that we deprive ourselves of the pleasure of watching a star athlete perform just because he or she exhibits arrogant disregard for decent behavior, but these ‘stars’ are the role models our young people emulate. Mentoring a single high school athlete, tutoring just one struggling kid who won’t be on the political stage for ten or twenty years, may seem like a waste of time, but nothing else will ultimately put our society back on track.


It doesn’t matter which political party you support, or where you stand on climate change, gun control, abortion, unions, immigration, healthcare – pick your label, pick your slogan – no one is out there campaigning for the right to lie, cheat and steal. Yet, too many of our young people learn that if you can get away with it, it’s OK; and if you get caught you only have to say, “I’m sorry,” and get on with business as usual.


We get to cast a vote for elected officials every two or four years, but a small upside to this current economic downturn is that our scarce dollars now carry more weight. We can vote everyday by choosing where our money goes and how we spend our volunteer hours. Like it or not, you are either part of the solution, or part of the problem. There are no sidelines; we’ve all been pulled into the game.

Monday, January 26, 2009

The taxes we pay

I received an email the other day listing the various taxes we have to pay. I'm sure you can think of others, but have you considered that not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, back when our nation was the most prosperous in the world. Today, those who make over $75,000 a year send over 50% of their income to the government via some form of taxation.

First under the Bush Administration and now Obama's, the government is borrowing money to return to the citizens of our country in an effort to stimulate the economy. Remember last year's stimulus check? What affect did it have? Consider how the first $350 Billion has been spent and the impact it has had. More importantly, consider how that debt will be repaid?

Last year we paid $135 BILLION in INTEREST on our nation's debt. The new administration has already said the deficit for the next three years will exceed a trillion dollars - and that is a conservative estimate. Before you support further government spending, consider the list of taxes below, and whether or not you want them to increase, or new ones to be added to the list.

Allowing politicians to spend more money than they collect is a fools game. The debt must be repaid. Are you comfortable passing such a debt to your children? Are you comfortable that we pay so much in taxes for so many different things? Consider the list that follows. The two parties have tricked you into thinking the debate is about whether or not we want the top 1% of income earners to pay more in taxes. The real debate should be about allowing politicians to hide the total amount of money they are collecting, and then spending more than they collect.

Consider the list that follows and who pays these taxes. Consider how much more our children will have to pay to finance the spending of our generation.

1. Accounts Receivable Tax
2. Building Permit Tax
3. Commerical Drivers License Tax
4. Cigarette Tax
5. Corporate Income Tax
6. Dog License Tax
7. Excise Taxes
8. Federal Income Tax
9. Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
10. Fishing License Tax
11. Food License Tax
12. Fuel Permit Tax
13. Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
14. Gross Receipts Tax
15. Hunting License Tax
16. Inheritance Tax
17. Inventory Tax
18. IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
19. Liquor Tax
20. Luxury Taxes
21. Marriage License Tax
22. Medicare Tax
23. Personal Property Tax
24. Property Tax
25. Real Estate Tax
26. Service Charge Tax
27. Social Security Tax
28. Road Usage Tax
29. Sales Tax
30. Recreational Vehicle Tax
31. School Tax
32. State Income Tax
33. State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
34. Telephone Federal Excise Tax
35. Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
36. Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
37. Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
38. Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax
39. Telephone State and Local Tax
40. Telephone Usage Charge Tax
41. Utility Taxes
42. Vehicle License Registration Tax
43. Vehicle Sales Tax
44. Watercraft Registration Tax
45. Well Permit Tax
46. Workers Compensation Tax


Can you think of others?